loosening up old rings ?

[jethro]

I have just bought a 1992 5.9 which supposedly has about 60K original miles- which doesn't seem to disagree with the overall appearance of the engine. However the previous owner said it had been sitting on the ground for about 5-6 years only being run occasionaly. When I run it - I can see a slight stream of oil slowly snaking up the dipstick when the breather line is plugged. When the breather line is open- I can only feel the slightest hint of a little air coming out of it......

I notice that the oil looks on the dirty side.
I am wondering if the rings might be a little stuck or maybe some carbon caked between the ring and ring groove - like the rings aernt 100% free in the grooves. I am building a heavy steel rolling dolley to mount it on so I can run it and clean/ work on it as needed.

I am thinking I will try running it with clean oil and maybe quite a bit of some kind of oil additive and see if regular running will free up the rings a bit. I figure worst case if that doesn't help - I can always take the head and pan off and do a hand hoan and new rings with a re-break-in.

what would be a good effective oil additive to put in when I do fresh oil to attempt to break looks the rings ????????
(marvel mystery oil ? ATF ? Sea Foam ? )
And- how long should I give this oil additive to work ???? (how many hours ?)

PS: I am considering taking the pan off to clean out any sludge and to have a look at the bottom end........

Thanks for any help !

Tim (Jethro)

[bgilbert]

PS: I am considering taking the pan off to clean out any sludge and to have a look at the bottom end........

That won't hurt. It's always a good idea to remove the pan to inspect everything and install a new oil pan gasket while the engine is on the ground.

The best thing to do to clean out any carbon built up in the cylinders is to run the engine HARD, get it good and hot, put it under a load etc. I experienced the same thing with an engine that sat for two years when I did my crew cab conversion. It would slobber oil out the exhaust at an idle. I did about everything the Cummins book said to replace. New valve seals, injectors, turbo, and added additional crankcase breathing. It wasn't until I took it out on a 50 mile roadtrip to flog on it and get it good and hot that it stopped slobbering oil.

A buddy of mine, Michael Miller said at an AG shop he worked for, would rebuild engines for tractors, combines etc in the fall. Then the customer would put the equipment up for the winter and come spring time it would experience similar spitting oil issues. Once they would start working them, the issues would go away.

[jethro]

Thanks Bill -

I got some 3 inch by1/4 square steel yesterday to build a rolling stand for it. I am hoping to figure out a way it can be mounted up or down depending if I want to work on the top or bottom.

I have stripped down quite a few outboard engines lately and seen how the carbon can pack up against the ring and ring groove..... though I know those engines had the water pump fail and went on to coke up and seize......

I thought I might change the oil first- then add maybe 1 quart of marvel into oil and just run it on the stand for several hours at a time and watch. (probably mount rad too)

I would all most EXPECT the rings to be a little "not relaxed" if not being run long enough to get heat soaked and also run infrequently too.

Perhaps I should drain it and do the pan before I run it much. God only knows what could be in the oil ! (mud dobbers ?)

(when I bought my ford 3400 diesel tractor - when I went into the fuel system I found - inside the fuel tank- a full long slieve mens dress shirt and about 1 gallon of dirt and sand. Also the fuel pump was 100% packed with dirt. Somehow it still ran.....
thanks to double micron filters I guess..... )

Any one else have ideas on oil additives that I may not know about ???????????????????????????

Thanks tim (aka jethro)

[CumminsPower59]

Why not run just regular oil in it??? Get it good and warm, run it for a bit and change it out. It would be smart to run some sort of cooling system, and a way to monitor the engine temps when on the stand.

[jethro]

I am planning on changing the oil before I run it to loosen it up (oil is cheap!)
I think I am going to design my motor stand so the radiator and shroud can be mounted.
Thermo sounds like a good idea ! maybe oil temp too. and oil pressure too.......

T

[CumminsPower59]

Oil pressure would be a good one too, put a mechanical gauge right next to the turbo oil feed line on the filter head...there's already a plug there, couldn't be simpler. Probably wouldn't worry much about oil temps since it's not going to have a load on it, won't get any warmer than normal.

[jethro]

Good idea- I even have a brand new little one I bought for my tractor that I never used.
I noticed that this engine has a 2 foot long stainless braided oil hose coming out near there- it has a quick disconnect on the end.
What did this go to ????? Oil cooler ????

[jethro]

Just got done building a huge rolling 4 wheel engine stand - and mounted engine on it.
Drained oil and put in 2 qts marvel and balance of oil and new filter. Will be next making a bracket to mount radiator on front of engine stand.

Noticed that the oil pan seems kind of flimsy- does anyone make a stronger aftermarket one ?

T

[888]

Kinda late for this but in case anyone is interested....

On another site I'm a member of I posted something about getting stuck bolts loose for the exhaust mani (I need to replace an exhaust mani gasket on cylinder 1) and a guy who works on CTD's recommended a mix of 50/50 ATF and Acetone. He had tried everything I've tried (PB Blaster, Silikroil, Aerokroil, etc) and said this mix worked much better than anything else and that was all they used to free things up. You have to shake it to keep it mixed when using it but he swears by it.

I have a Ford 8N tractor that has been sitting in a barn for years that is locked up and asked about using it on the rings, and it was recommended for that as well. I haven't used it yet but I plan to as soon as I get some time to work on stuff.

Just an FYI in case someone was interested.

[MARF75]

An old timer showed me a trick for cleaning out carbon once.
Run the engine up in RPMs (1500-2000) and trickle some ATF in the intake. I recommend doing this outside!
It smokes to beat hell but it will do some amazing stuff.

I had a 4 cylinder escort that wouldn't stay running at an idle with your foot on the brakeand altogether just ran rough, a little ATF smoke out and it purred like a sewing machine

[ByronRACE]

I'll second the ATF/Acetone solution for freeing up parts. It's much better than PB Blaster / WD40 / ETC. I had an old tractor engine that was locked solid. With nothing to lose, I decided to pull all 4 spark plug holes and squirt in acetone/atf. The next morning, I gave the crank a few whacks with a deadblow hammer, and it moved. I then spun the starter and it turned over. I continued to wash the cylinders with acetone/atf and let it purge the crap out of the spark plug holes, then put the pan back and the plugs in and fired it. That tractor has mowed my field for 4 years now. It burns a little oil, but who cares...that's how I get rid of my old motor oil.

[jethro]

oK- I have run it on the engine stand for about 3-4 hours cumulatively. (mounted radiator , oil pressure gague)
I changed the oil first. Black as coal. now it looks like water on the dipstick (clear) I was still down about 1 quart so I put in a big bottle of marvel mystery oil. That topped it off. I have run it for about 15-25 minuites at a time. Oil pressure is about 60 cold. The blow-by is now all most gone. I added some sea foam to oil and gas. going to run it a little more like that before taking the timing cover (kdp check) and pan off. (pan has a metal screw in the bottom- I assume to plug a hole----- )
Seems to run very nicely overall.

Today I was noticing the little priming lever on the (engine driven mechanical) fuel pump doesn't seem to be contacting the diaphragm - not really moving any fuel it appears (with a line off for bleeding)

Since its a 1992 would it be a good idea to replace the pump just like I would replace the rubber hoses for rot ???????

Does the action of the priming lever depend on what clock position the pump drive arm is on the cam ? That is- is it arranged so that the diaphragm cant be moved by the external lever if the diaphragm happens to be compressed by the cam ?

Tim

[PToombs]

Does the action of the priming lever depend on what clock position the pump drive arm is on the cam ? That is- is it arranged so that the diaphragm cant be moved by the external lever if the diaphragm happens to be compressed by the cam ?
Tim

Yup! Turn the engine over and you can get almost a full stroke out of it. As it builds up fuel pressure it will feel like it's on high cam also.

[jethro]

I think it lost its prime a little sitting on the stand. I tried the prime lever several times after turning the engine over-
no real change- no "grip" on any fuel-

I suspect the pump is from 1993 like the rest of the engine- too old for a rubber diaphram !

I am fixing things up while its on the stand and I can get to everything easy. May do a water pump too (?)

The fuel pump looks pretty common - its an AC type.

I will try NAPA
Tim

[dazedandconfused]

It would be a good time to upgrade to a better lift pump. The Hungry Diesel has a nice mechanical pump setup.