The Great Ethanol Scam

[wjones]

Can't wait until they punch up the ethanol levels to 15% my dirtbike has enough problems with clogged jets at 10%

Businessweek article...

[dpuckett]

Old news to me. What I dont understand, is since ethanol is a failure in the free market, and it is a net energy loser, why is our govt even messing with it? Oh, yeah, lobby money. Silly of me to forget. Were I in Congress, I'd take the money and vote against them anyway. At least once.

I've heard of ethanol destroying standard fuel systems for years. Fiancee's Dakota doesnt run as well as it did new, and it has had meticulous maintenance front to rear. I wonder what a test of the injectors would reveal.......

[KTA]

And oddly enough 100% ethanol runs just fine in Indy cars.

[dpuckett]

But arent they built and set up for the stuff? We (our genius govt) are trying to make it work in something for which it wasnt designed. Kinda like running straight veggie oil in your diesel that was made for #2.

[93_Fummins]

Wait...the government pushing to make something work in a system that wasn't designed for it in the first place?!? Madness!!!!!


Move to Oklahoma...we don't have any Ethanol in the gas out here in Oil Country.

[MMiller]

Wierd, i've never had any problems with any of the gas motors I run ethonal in. Even the equipment that sets 6-8 months at a time. Lets just keep going at the rate we are going, throw out Ethonal and buy some more oil from the guys out east. Thats the best idea.

I've never said that ethanol is the answer to our problem with foreign oil, but its a stepping stone to the next fuel. It did not increase our food prices, ethonal does not take food out of anyones mouth, and it has helped the American farmer finally make some money for his product.

I wonder when they figure out how much energy it takes to process ethonal, they actually figure out how much it takes to process the corn for other uses. I wonder if they figure that the byproduct from the ethanol plant actually goes out to feed lots for cattle, or onto foreign contries for thier products. The byproduct from the ethonal plant ships eaisier, it does not spoil like corn will, and in the feedlot operations, it is actually easier for the cow to digest the regular corn.............

I really think everyone needs to go tour an ethonal plant.

Michael

[KTA]

yes Indy cars are obviously designed to run and perform on ethanol since that is the fuel they are required to run. They don't however have any engine issues from running it and make just as much horsepower as they did on regular gas. Yes it takes more fuel, but so does running a drag car on alcohol, but it makes more power. Bashing ethanol is a mistake. It is a renewable resource, we can grow it forever, and it burns cleaner than regular gas. Of course technically oil is renewable too it just takes a few million years instead of one. Producing ethanol is NOT a net effective loss when everything is considered, and yes it is tax subsidised by the government but so is regular oil.

[Begle1]

There have been reputable studies regarding the net efficiency of our ethanol that swing both ways; it either takes twice as much gasoline-energy to make ethanol, or three-quarters as much. Our current ethanol practices definitely aren't the solution.

There is an agricultural solution. Brazil is the most cited example of an agricultural-based fuel economy, and as far as I'm concerned they've got it figured out; they grow their fuel in the form of sugar cane, which has a net efficiency possibly ten times higher than corn.

I don't understand how more research in different crops and feedstocks isn't being done; our currently low oil prices are undermining future alternatives. I don't understand the focus on ethanol over biodiesel. I don't understand the lack of concern over production of biofuel from cellulosic waste. Algae has always been the great wildcard when it comes to biofuels, and that's just started to find funding after decades of drought. If fuel prices stayed at $4.00 a gallon instead of dropping to $2.00 the bottom wouldn't have fallen out of alternative fuels like it has over the past year.

[Richie O]

There have been reputable studies regarding the net efficiency of our ethanol that swing both ways; it either takes twice as much gasoline-energy to make ethanol, or three-quarters as much. Our current ethanol practices definitely aren't the solution.

There is an agricultural solution. Brazil is the most cited example of an agricultural-based fuel economy, and as far as I'm concerned they've got it figured out; they grow their fuel in the form of sugar cane, which has a net efficiency possibly ten times higher than corn.

I don't understand how more research in different crops and feedstocks isn't being done; our currently low oil prices are undermining future alternatives. I don't understand the focus on ethanol over biodiesel. I don't understand the lack of concern over production of biofuel from cellulosic waste. Algae has always been the great wildcard when it comes to biofuels, and that's just started to find funding after decades of drought. If fuel prices stayed at $4.00 a gallon instead of dropping to $2.00 the bottom wouldn't have fallen out of alternative fuels like it has over the past year.

Usually your out somewhere in left field but this time I agree with you.

[KTA]

Good news is gas and diesel will probably both be back over $3 by the 4th of July so that shuld spur some alternative funding.

[redneckroot]

I was just talking to another guy about biodiesel who lives out in Michigan, he said that his company cannot make a profit unless diesel is 3 dollars a gallon, he has enough from last year to make it to august and he will be belly up. The fuel drop just about put us out of commission as well. What bothers me is fuel prices go up and everyone and their brother starts researching for new ideas, fuel prices drop and it seems like everyone stops looking and just goes back to their normal routine.

[dpuckett]

I wondered why we couldnt make ethanol from sugar beets or switch grass, too.

Begle, what have you been smoking? You actually made perfect sense for once.

DP

[meby]

Of course technically oil is renewable too it just takes a few million years instead of one.

Is it a a certainty that oil takes several million years? I have heard of cases where they have found oil in places that was previously not supposed to have any. Not that finding oil is my specialty, just curious.

[KTA]

No it doesn't have to take that long it depends on pressures temperatures and organic content. Much like natural dimands take a VERY long time to form, but we can make them from carbon in less than a month.