1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

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1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby nitrofumes » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:02 pm

Hello!

I currently have two wheel drive '86 short bed D150 that I am contemplating swapping a 6BT into it. One potential issue that I am worried about is the front end being able to support the additional weight of the Cummins over the existing small block. Do you think the frame rails, ball joints, etc. can support the additional weight? I do plan on changing out the existing ½ springs for a set of D250 Cummins springs – aside from that I plan on leaving it stock. This truck will be used strictly as a daily driver. Any and all advice is appreciated! If this has been discussed ad nauseam I apologize for not using the search function.

Thanks!
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby BILTIT » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:06 pm

I would NOT leave stock D150 suspension under a 6BT, it will not handle the weight.
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby SuperiorRam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:19 pm

I have all stock d150 parts under my 6bt half ton short box and I handles and rides amazing I would not change out the springs for anything
Scroll don't to "the mustard bucket" or "the ugly duckling" threads in this forum to see more
I know many many people use half ton trucks without issue first second and third geners alike
92 Cummins: DD, basic mods, topper, 9'2" bossV
92 Cummins: 10' tall, Rockwells and r1's "Dirty Addiction",
83 RC/SB Cummins: engine set back 18", block 89w/h20 after cooler, fire ringed and worked head, studs, billet 64/68/14w/race cover, custom header, bigger sticks, 47rh, dana 60, four wheel disk, and big Mickey Thompsons w/ Weld drag lites. "The Mustard Bucket"
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby dazedandconfused » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:18 pm

I'm using D250 coils and lower control arms but my springs are shot and need replaced. Only reason I did that was because I did mine on the cheap and the truck had cut half ton springs. My steering would bind so I went to the 3/4 ton stuff. I'll be going back to new HD half ton springs.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11789
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10029
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1983 Dodge D150 that has been repowered with a 93 Cummins/518 running gear AKA The Ugly Duck! I would much rather build them then buy them.[
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby BILTIT » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:22 pm

I wouldn't be worried about the coils as much as the ball joints, steering joints, a-arms etc.

Strange how a front d44 (3/4t) solid axle cant stand up to a 6BT swap but even lighter stuff does in a 2wd?

Myself, i would get both ball joints from a d350 and d150 in my hands and compare. If they are the same size then go for it.
Derek B.
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91.5 W250, coolertubz, HE351CW, PS IC, Alcans, GVOD, Valair DD, bags, crossover.
1974 Pontiac Ventura,best of 11.97 at 112 so far.
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby dazedandconfused » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:29 pm

You also have to look at weight. My truck weighs 4200 pounds. We also run small tires out front so less stress on parts. I run 215/75/15 on front and I know the mustard bucket runs smaller. I believe the little red Cummins express runs similar and I've seen that truck pull the front tires on numerous runs with no I'll effect.
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby dazedandconfused » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:39 pm

Also to run D250 springs you need to run the lower control arms and modify your spindles or lower ball joint mount. Post up some pics of your truck.
Big Andy
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby RumbleFish » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:53 pm

Another thing to consider, is that if you're swapping it into a half ton, theres a good chance its not a hard working truck. You wouldn't load it down like a 3/4 (at least I wouldn't) you can use some of the half ton payload capacity to cover the weight of the diesel.
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby SuperiorRam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:07 pm

BILTIT wrote:
Strange how a front d44 (3/4t) solid axle cant stand up to a 6BT swap but even lighter stuff does in a 2wd?



I've snapped Dana 44's like tooth picks with 318 two barrels many times. true story. Apples / oranges

The same 1/2 ton gear holds up to factory big block equipped trucks all the same. a 440 is what maybe 400lbs less? Many people have hung a supercharger on a 440 or hemi and plus a cage and beat the urine out of the same gear I'm sure a stockish 6b will be fine
92 Cummins: DD, basic mods, topper, 9'2" bossV
92 Cummins: 10' tall, Rockwells and r1's "Dirty Addiction",
83 RC/SB Cummins: engine set back 18", block 89w/h20 after cooler, fire ringed and worked head, studs, billet 64/68/14w/race cover, custom header, bigger sticks, 47rh, dana 60, four wheel disk, and big Mickey Thompsons w/ Weld drag lites. "The Mustard Bucket"
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby nitrofumes » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:53 am

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Currently the truck has been lowered using ¾ ton van lower control arms with factory D150 springs. The rear however has been lowered by flipping the rear end on top of the spring. I'm running 235/75/15's on the front and 285/75/15's on the rear. The truck currently has an 8-3/4 with 3.23 gears and I feel comfortable that it will live behind the Cummins - provided I don't get the itch to bolt on slicks and see what it would run at the drag strip... Additionally I will be replacing the 727 with an A518 along with a good converter.

Image

The truck will never be used to haul anything serious at all. The most action it would probably see is toting around a small trailer with a lawn mower on it.

The reasoning behind the swap is first and foremost I like driving my truck, secondly fuel economy, and last power. With the basic pump mods/timing advance the truck will make more power than I would ever need and get reasonable fuel mileage as well, 22-24 mpg I'm estimating. I know my modded '92 CC 4x4 D250 gets 18-20 mpg with a stock A518. So the combination of reduced weight and taller gearing will potentially get me 22-24 mpg? That's the goal anyway.

Thanks for all advice!
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby SuperiorRam » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:34 am

First off let me say That thing is beautiful!
Second did you do the front end drop? Because I'd love to know what was done exactly for parts year and model, thanks
Third you could cut up a 3/4 Dana 60 and your 8 3/4 and builds half ton Dana rear and sleep comfortable, that's all I did I used c body 8 3/4 ends and axles on the Dana tubes and wal-la
92 Cummins: DD, basic mods, topper, 9'2" bossV
92 Cummins: 10' tall, Rockwells and r1's "Dirty Addiction",
83 RC/SB Cummins: engine set back 18", block 89w/h20 after cooler, fire ringed and worked head, studs, billet 64/68/14w/race cover, custom header, bigger sticks, 47rh, dana 60, four wheel disk, and big Mickey Thompsons w/ Weld drag lites. "The Mustard Bucket"
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby nitrofumes » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:03 am

SuperiorRam wrote:First off let me say That thing is beautiful!
Second did you do the front end drop? Because I'd love to know what was done exactly for parts year and model, thanks
Third you could cut up a 3/4 Dana 60 and your 8 3/4 and builds half ton Dana rear and sleep comfortable, that's all I did I used c body 8 3/4 ends and axles on the Dana tubes and wal-la


Thanks man!

Rather than try and remember exactly what all was done I will link you to a thread on Moparts that has the whole write up on how to do it. It will be way more concise than I could be here at work.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6548150&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

A good friend of mine that does strictly Mopar only builds did the drop for me. Excellent ride quality after lowering it as well - no mushy cut coil bounce too it. One leaf was added on the rear to stiffen/raise the rear up a bit - I had just a touch of a rubbing issue and that took care of it.

Good tip on on the rear end!
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby BobS » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:43 am

You will need the double dropped DIESEL center link + all of the associated tie rod ends and a taper reamer to install it. Otherwise you have to mount the engine higher in the frame which isn't good, or the center link rubs the oil pan.

I think I'll just label this as "D150 center link" instead of retyping it umpteen more times........ ;)
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby SuperiorRam » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:48 am

I might not need that because my engine is 18" further back than stock hehehe
92 Cummins: DD, basic mods, topper, 9'2" bossV
92 Cummins: 10' tall, Rockwells and r1's "Dirty Addiction",
83 RC/SB Cummins: engine set back 18", block 89w/h20 after cooler, fire ringed and worked head, studs, billet 64/68/14w/race cover, custom header, bigger sticks, 47rh, dana 60, four wheel disk, and big Mickey Thompsons w/ Weld drag lites. "The Mustard Bucket"
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Re: 1/2T Conversion - Front Suspension Question

Postby dazedandconfused » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:41 am

BobS wrote:You will need the double dropped DIESEL center link + all of the associated tie rod ends and a taper reamer to install it. Otherwise you have to mount the engine higher in the frame which isn't good, or the center link rubs the oil pan.

I think I'll just label this as "D150 center link" instead of retyping it umpteen more times........ ;)


This is why I used as much of my donor D250 front end as possible. My steering bound up with the stock half ton stuff in there.
Big Andy
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