ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Cummins Conversion & Builds

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ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby jethro » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:59 pm

about to put the 5.9 into the engine bay of my 2004 F-350 with ZF-6 6 speed. Have been comparing the engine length (rear of adaptor plate to front of fan clutch) with the length available to put it. (rear of rad to front edge of transmission bell. )
Presently the two dimentions are exactly equal. I have earlier pushed the trans to the rear of the crossmember's 2 elongated holes- so no more give there. I talked to diesel conversion specialists, who I got parts from, and the fellow told me that there were two separate sets of holes for the cross member- and I should just move the crossmember to the rear set of holes.
I went and looked more carefully- and it appears that the trans crossmember -IS- in the rear-most set of holes in the frame. When I look up from below at the shifter and shifter boot- it appears that the shifter is about perfectly centered in the square hole in the floor. There appears to be no way I could have the radiator incorrectly positioned as it goes down into
the big rubber grommets in the lower front of the body. Don't see how I could have an error there.......

There do appear to be a duplicate set of holes in the frame for the trans crossmember.... but these are about 1+3/4 inch ahead of the ones in use now. (so there ARE two sets of holes.....)

There must be something here I am missing....... I just cant see what it is .........
Can yall point out anything obvious ???????

Tim
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby simplysmn » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:20 pm

Your not the first Nor will you be the Last to Make a ford Run and run well . It sound's like you need to go back more on trans cross member .It would be Best to set motor n Trans in as a Package that way you have everything in line .
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby jethro » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:47 pm

I will make a new crossmember if I need to- I have material to do it. I will probably put the engine in when It is ready.
It will only have a finite range it can sit in-
I can take loose the rear drive shaft and just slide the trans WAY back out of the way (on the transmission jack)
Then move the engine forward as far as it can go with an appropriate clearance with radiator- tighten down the motor mounts.
Then bring the trans forward and slip it into clutch. Then I will know where the trans HAS to go. And the crossmember also.
(the one I make-----)
All that if I cant figure out why the factory crossmember holes don't look right .....

I think I will be happy with the result when I am done..... a beautifull and simple engine.... no electronic crap to fail......

PS- I am guessing that the engine and trans together might be 1600 lbs..... more weight than I want on an engine hoist.
I am having to enlarge the footprint of my hoist just to lift the engine alone !

Tim
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby dazedandconfused » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:58 am

Pete, Bill or anyone else who was the guy who was at SOP last year with the super duty Fummins? I'm can picture him and remember talking to him but can't for the life of me remember his name.
Big Andy
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby bgilbert » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:11 am

dazedandconfused wrote:Pete, Bill or anyone else who was the guy who was at SOP last year with the super duty Fummins? I'm can picture him and remember talking to him but can't for the life of me remember his name.

artieb. Pretty sure that is Artie's user name on here.
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby dazedandconfused » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:57 am

Thanks bill. He should be able to help awnser some of your questions.
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby PToombs » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:28 pm

Can you remove the crossmember and rotate it 180*? That would move the 2nd set of holes to the rear. I'm not familiar with fords so I don't know if it can be done or if the crossmember only goes in 1 way.
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby jethro » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:30 pm

I thought about rotating the crossmember- but that wont work for reasons -
1. they made the crossmember have different shapes and hole patterns on each end.
2. the elongated center holes (where the trans mounts) are closer to the rear on the crossmember. - so rotating it would make it worse instead of better.
2.5 they made the crossmember mount to the indise of the frame on the passenger side and on the outboard side on the drivers side. (maybe to make it easier to get in and out ?)

And to clarify- the 2-nd set of holes are in the frame - not the crossmember.

The fellow that had the truck before me was also going to do a cummins conversion- so I think he had all ready moved the crossmember to the rear holes. could he have discovered some anomaly in the frame geometry and that's why he quit ?
he never mentioned why he didn't continue.......
I am a prototype and welder so a fabbed crossmember isn't hard- just will take a little time and careful measuring.

Im just confounded why it does not seem to look like it is supposed to on the measurements........

Tim
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby jethro » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:49 pm

all I can think of to do measure some other f-350 frames and compare.....

I bought a big-ass piece of channel iron to make a crossmember. Now I am thinking a rectangular tube
about 4 by 6 by 1/4 might be a stiffer material- especially if I have to cut it into segments and weld it back together
to make the required jogs.......

Sounds like I am on my own on this one ......... ?

Tim
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby PToombs » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:26 pm

That's the way it is in Fordville......... ;)

Seriously though, can you just add a tab or redo the original crossmember so you don't have to build a new one?
pete

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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby dazedandconfused » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:35 pm

I sent Artie a pm to see if he can chime in on this. Hopefully he sees it soon.
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby jethro » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:01 pm

If Fordville a deserted ghost town ? after the 6 liter debacle they deserve to be boycotted !
The sides of the frame the next 3 or 4 or 5 inches toward the rear is rittled with smaller (3/8) holes which would make
adding holes problematic. Also there is a shape and angle change just aft of the crossmember which might make fitting the old one back there difficult.
I was thinking to use a pair of heavy plates which could be over the intended holes- and the beam attached a few inches further back. Make the plates wider front to rear than the crossmember.

T
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby PToombs » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:56 pm

I meant use the original crossmember in the original position and fab something on the crossmember to bolt the trans to in the new position.

Aren't projects fun? This is why I find myself avoiding them lately, I don't have the time to figure out stuff like this, I just want to get it done and use it. ;)
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby jethro » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:36 pm

I think there would be too much rotational torque to use the cross member in the normal holes and just add an extended
piece.
I do a lot of prototyping in my job- so I have to engineer new things and weld them up !

Tim
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Re: ford frame doesnt make sense ..??

Postby u2slow » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:18 am

My buddy scavenged 91-93 Dodge (intercooled) accessory drive pieces for extra clearance. Its tighter to the engine than both the 89-91 non-IC, and the 94+ setups.
93 W250 Club 6BTA/5spd/3.54/Dana80/~3"lift/2gen leafs/3gen wheels/HX35/5x.012s
90 D250 6BT/5spd/3.54PwrLok
84 Ramcharger [Project} D250 6BT/5spd/3.07
... various other 75-05 mopar truck products
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