Belt driven lift pump

[ahale2772]

once again... I feel as if the search feature has eaten a thread? I swear someone (if not myself) has made a thread about belt driven lift pumps before.... who knows.


so I'll start this again. Time to start building a proper fuel system for the 89. Starting from the back, Im going to put a 30-40 gallon fuel tank/fuel cell in the back, Im sick of "dropping tanks, and I'd like to have the ease of the tank in the back of the bed.

I'm going to throw two spin on type filter/separators out back, and run 1/2 line all the way to the front of the truck, with a 3/8 return

I'm ditching the piston pump, I would like to at least run 50psi through the stock inlet for now, my seal is locktighted and retained, so I/m not worried about going to high on psi just yet, I'd assume 80 psi or so is all I'd ever want to run through the front of the inlet, but IDK why that number rings a bell.

either way... I'm building this to support a 14mm head, and possibly go with KTA's idea of isolating the case all together, and feeding straight to the plunger.

SOOO... my idea on a lift/supply pump are this, if I'm going to run just through the front inlet for now, I need something that can be regualted down, I've got plently of regulators so that's fine, but what would regulating a 200PSI pump down to 50 psi do? burn up the pump? seems like a big drop in pressure to me

next, if I ever do run straight into the shutoff, what should my requirements of a pump be? I'm assuming there arnt many people out there besides me that have had a case pressure guage on their truck, but in my findings, ive never seen an under load condition at WOT that my case ever got up to say... 150 psi, even with my stock non IC sticks, the case pressure dips down to about 80 psi, at the lowest when romping on it. Yet at Idle, ive seen up to 230 PSI, with no load of course.

KTA said he was running an aero 1000 in his "dual feed" helper type setup, and that with (i think) 6x18's, his system was feeding aux pressure into the case at around 70 psi, meaning, that his case pressure under load with a 14mm pump and big injectors was at least as low as 70 psi.... or his whole dual feed system was useless

sooooo.... lets say a pump capable of 200psi, with a 250 psi releif pressure, belt driven, with target PSI at about 2000 RPM... I wonder how it would work..... ALSO, GPH requirements are over my head.... no clue what I would need to maintain PSI at rpm

Ive got absolutly no idea of the requirements of running the pump directly into the plunger at IDLE, I assume its not something that you would want to run on the street all the time.

this is the style pump im thinking about...
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/PROCON ... Pid=search
seems like most of them are max PSI at about 200, yet for the price they are worth expirimenting with. GPH ratings go from about 70-330GPH for the more expensive PROcon pumps, with putlets ranging from 3/8 npt to 1/2NPT

please chime in people, Looking for a fuel system that can get a VE into the 700's

[BILTIT]

Another option:

http://www.dieseltrans.com/dodge/ASSASSIN.htm

[dazedandconfused]

Aeromotive 11105 belt driven pump be able to feed the case pressure in check and a A1000 to feed the pump the normal way. This is what i plan to do.

[ahale2772]

bought a pump, procon P/N 115E240F31XX, series 5, 3bolt syyle flange, 1/2 shaft, 240 GPH, 250psi at 1700 RPM, 400$ from sears and most other online places, scored if for 215$ shipped from amazon!

So Andy, How do you plan on running two pumps?

I'm happy with the 250 psi that this pump can make, I need to do some math to figure out the correct RPM to run the pump at. Question is, at what point of a VE power band do we want 200PSI? 2500RPM? 3000RPM?

I need to find a source for belt/ drive options

[dazedandconfused]

I plan to set the a1000 up like Brian has for now since i diubt ill be feeding tge case directly anytime soon. Id like to have it set up on a pressure switch setup and another shutoff pulling the manual shutoff. Thjs way if it snapped the belt and lost psi to the case it would shut off the truck hopefully saving the pump. That way i could just put a gutted fss back in and run it that away if i didnt have a belt. Im not sure if that fitting Brian made would allow it to build pressure to the case still feeding threw ghe vane pump. Not put a lot of thought in it just yet.

[93flatbed]

What ratio does that pump need to be ran?

As I read it (take this with a grain of salt), that you don't want to push much more than 70 psi into the inlet of the VE. The vein pump has imploded at that pressure, also the front seal leaks past the shaft and the seal at those pressure and no amount of lock tite or snap ring will help with a leak there. Also timing is affected by inlet pressures, so with that much pressure I'd assume that timing would be advanced which in turn just makes our little pumps a huh? rotary Pee Pump.

I would like to go with Brian's idea of feeding the FSS and make it indapendant of the case, I don't see what would go wrong besides loosing a belt and that would be all she wrote of the Head and Rotor.

We had a thread over on DTR about doing some modifications to the Vein pump, but from what we talked about the gain wouldn't be worth the loss, we were thinking that the added veins would increase pressure but volume would be lost also.

Jayers and Cummin's King attempted to feed threw the return port of the VE, both seized their pumps. They didn't go into detail on how it was being feed, but I imagine they just blocked off the the return with a new feed line. Not sure if that is the case but if so their pumps had to be hotter than hell with no fuel return, another idea that was brought up was to make up some thing that would block the return if the case pressure dropped, but none of us knew how much as really being lost out of the return or if it was all going to the injectors at that point.

For what it's worth Stomp just feeds threw the factory inlet. He states once his case pressure drops he turns on the KSB via toggle switch.....Food for thought.

Once you get your pump on I'd like to see some pictures. Maybe you could call some of the places that sell the built kits and see if they will sell you pulleys and belts. Other options I could think of is going to pick and pull and find an overhead cam engine and get the cam sprockets and crank sprocket and have a machine shop make something out of those given that you need a 2:1 ratio...

[ahale2772]

got a pump in, looks nice, I beieve I am going to set it up so that it runs off of the fan pully, I will have to find a balancer/pully to measure the diameter of the pulley surface, so that I can figure out what the final ratio of my pump is. this pump is 3/4PH max, so the stock serp belt wont have an issue turning it

the shaft of this pump is like .43 with a flat spot, so I believe I'm going to get a 3/8 pulley and bore the center out on the lathe, that will be my larger pully and I'll make an adaptor so that I can swap gears to nail the ratio down. I/m going to use pulley's designed for Mcmastercar's L series 1/2 cogged belts

I also need a regulator that will deal with high pressure/flow, I dont know if my mallory will deal with 150+ psi.

ultimatly, I'd like to start by feeding into the stock inlet, for a while, maxing at about 60 psi, just to test the longevity/duty cycle of these procon pumps. seeing that I have never seen lower than 80 psi of case pressure, 60 psi will not do anything bad to the timing curve.

after that I will get into the dual feed stuff.

ratios of belts and stuff is easy math, so I'm sure I will be able to nail the pressure that this pump puts out...

gona start collecting parts for a new fuel system, with a 30gal tank mounted in the bed, dual filters on the frame, 1/2 lines, yada yada

[PToombs]

Alex, why don't you get a hub and pulleys that bolt to the hub? Lots of them out there, Tractor Supply has them, Graingers, Surplus Center, etc. You may need to adapt the hub to the shaft or what ever, but then the pulleys are bolt on.

[oldestof11]

If you do this, make the return line ADJUSTABLE.

1 problem I am seeing not being addressed is the lack of a good return. If you feed 250psi at 240gph, then using a electric to feed the rest of it, without that fuel being able to go anywhere, you are running the risk of exploding the pump.

While I see this as a great attempt, it is like the Cummins cast head. Years ago it was push ridiculous amounts of air with high PSI. Now people are making 1xxxhp on 60-70psi of charged air. What happened? More flow.

[ahale2772]

Thats what i'm doing Pete, my smaller pulley is going to be fixed to the shaft (dont plan on changing it), but the larger ones have a 3 bolt style flange, so i can change them just by pulling the fan nut off and changing the pulley. I'm using timing style belts (gimble) so that no preload is needed on the belt, or very little, the pump is not designed for side load.

I will make an adjustable return, definitly a saftey point, but I will
Never see all the flow this pump can support thru the stock inlet, i will
Be overdriving it so its at a much lower pressure/flow. Only when its feeding straigjt through the FSS will
It be run at the lift pumps desired RPM

[coolhand_luke]

any updates on this set up?