Hybrid turbo time

[cmann250]

I gave up on the Super 40 dream after looking at prices, so I figure I can make something pretty dang close. Actually buying something instead of making it would go way against the grain in this truck

I have an HX35 and a small H1C to choose parts from. The HX has an internal oil leak that I'm currently ignoring, and the H1 is in great shape. So guys that have a hybrid, should I build a seven blade "Super 35" (60/60/12 gated) or an eight blade H1"D" (60/60/18)? 14 ungated just scared me, as does the $200 price tag for an ungated housing, not to mention the $500 price tag on on the gated housings. I do like the low and mid range power the 12 provides, but the slippy and higher RPM nature of towing with an auto sort of makes me like the 18 more (and I hate that snap ring on the back of the HX).

Thoughts?

[ellis93]

Use the h1c,there is no difference in the exhaust turbine in the hx. Both measure 65mm,the only difference in the two is the bigger inducer in hx and its smaller exhaust housing. If you go the 60mm route,you'll like it with a 14 exhaust housing

[earthdad]

I didnt like the snap ring either until I found this, I use a brake spring pliers.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii4 ... a67ba7.jpg

[cmann250]

Use the h1c,there is no difference in the exhaust turbine in the hx. Both measure 65mm,the only difference in the two is the bigger inducer in hx and its smaller exhaust housing. If you go the 60mm route,you'll like it with a 14 exhaust housing

I was pretty sure the stock turbine was 60, but 65 is all the better I'd rather not buy an exhaust housing because there is a point where you may as well buy a new turbo.

I didnt like the snap ring either until I found this, I use a brake spring pliers.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii4 ... a67ba7.jpg

I think I have some of those laying around. Thanks

[ellis93]

My experience with that thought went like this,I called GDS to order the wheel,rebuild kit,and turbine/shaft,asked for the 60mm turbine/shaft and the guy there told me there was no such thing. I went to measure it out. The very end of the fins do indeed measure 60mm but the guy told me thats not where you measure it,your suppose to measure the actual part of the fins that get caught by the exhaust,they measure out slightly bigger than 65

[cmann250]

I see, the larger (inducer?) measurement is the one that's used. I like the idea of a bigger turbine

[dazedandconfused]

Apparently there are several different sized wheels in the HX35 so you need to measure. I want to upgrade mine to a 62/64/12 if its what i think it is.
http://baeturbosystems.com/turbineshaftwheel-2.aspx

[cmann250]

I did a little digging around and found that information does not flow in the VE Cummins world
It appears that the large diameter of the H1C and the HX35 exhaust wheel are both 70mm. Most HX40s are 70mm too, including the desirable 65mm wheel. An old KTA post said the small diameters of the Super40 and HX35 exhaust wheels are 65 and 57mm respectively. This must mean that the small diameter of the exhaust wheel is the measurement that is compared. The "65"in the Super40's 60/65/16. The compressor inlet (small diameter) of an HX35 is something like 54, making the HX35 54/57/12 and a hybrid HX35 60/57/12.
Further digging yielded a Super40 part number of 4027888 from Holset's website. BAE has that part number labled as a Super40 and charges $695 for it. The wonderful aftermarket performance shops have a price tag as high as $1400 on a Super40. No mention of a core charge from BAE. It turns out that BAE is a maker of knock off Holset products, knock off meaning that they charge half of what Holset does. I may just give them a try. It wouldn't be the first time an "inferior" product worked just fine. I was looking at $360 to get a reseal kit and compressor upgrade from GDS, so BAE is right in there. I want the bigger turbine to get rid of exhaust all the faster any way.
I'm beginning to resent the aftermarket. All the guys that found this onfo out 5 or 10 years ago can pop in and say "You should have just asked" now.
Cmann250- taking the mysticism out of the VE Cummins one post at a time

[BILTIT]

he351cw, has the same comp as the super 40 and the ex housing isnt that bad like most think.

[cmann250]

BILTIT, you push that 351 hard. If I one pops up for a price that I can swing, I may spring for it. The thing is, one pops up for $300 on Craigslist because the guy "went bigger" which means that he set his Smarty on kill, stacked some pressure box on it, dynoed 4xx hp once, drag raced for three summers, hooked at the county fair twice, and then decided he needed a bigger turbo. Someone will give him the $300, but I figure that it'll need a reseal kit @ $75, a turbine and shaft @ $150 and maybe a compressor wheel @ $75. That's $600 right there and I put it together on my tailgate. $700 buys this knock off Super40 that wasn't assembled by a kid on his tailgate and it fits my IC plumbing.

I'm not against the 351, but the common rail that it's attached to poses some complications. I'm in diesel performance central, so parts tend to go high. However, there are deals out there, like the $80 HX35 on my truck now. Granted it needs a reseal kit, but $160 isn't bad in my book. I'm still shopping

[BILTIT]

40psi, not sure if thats hard? i dont hit that often mind you, i see 30 plenty though. I towed 10k behind me this summer for 2500kms, many hills i had that sucker to the floor boards. I pushed it hard then but was only making 36psi for that trip.

[cmann250]

I meant push it hard as in you really like it and suggest it often. Also keep in mind that I have a loose as a goose automatic now and for the foreseeable future. Off the top of my head, you and Hansen have the 351 and you both have manuals. I'd be more likely to buy into it if I find someone that likes it with an auto. I wished the 18cm housing was a little smaller on my H1C and this 12cm housing is pleasing under normal driving, but I worry it'll be too small under a decent load. I'll find out this weekend.

[BILTIT]

I push it because for the money it is a damn good turbo for our trucks.

Us manual folk just get more of a gain (spool up between shifts) from it than the auto folk, i am sure there are auto peoples who like it.

When at wot pulling 10k i dont think it matters if auto or manual, should be the same comparison then.

[cmann250]

I did more reading and found that $200-300 gets you a "who knows what shape it's in" HE351, $300-400 gets you a good one, and there doesn't appear to way to gate the 9cm housing.
BILTIT, how turned up is your truck? I have a non-IC'd pump on the verge of run away (stock throttle lever indexing), non-IC'd injectors, and a Cummins low pressure piston pump. It has Plenty 'O Fuel. Turning it down would be just no fun at all. An ungated 9cm housing just screams drive pressure and EGT problems to me. I like the fact that they are readily available and relatively cheap, but the small exhaust housing is a hang-up that I can't get past. Make me a believer!

[BILTIT]

Good question, i have turned the fuel screw in but not sure how far from runaway i am, stock IC injectors and LP pump (10psi idle and ~5-6psi at wot).

Some people have gated them, i will be when i go to compounds. Some have cut the WG mounting ears of the compressor housing and had them re-welded in a better spot to run the gate. Some have built a "z" type linkage to use stock WG mounting location. I think others yet have just built a spring gate that mounts to the exh housing alone.

The WG hole can be enlarged to help with exhaust flow when it is used, this seems to help with drive pressures. I didn't do anything to mine internally.

I paid 350CAD for mine, installed a rebuild kit for piece of mind but dont think it needed it.

Sounds like you are pushing more fuel than me, saying that you may be pushing more than enough for an hx40 anyways.

I set my fuel to be able to tow, pedal on the floor up a hill with 10k behind me and 1250egts max. I dont like smoke so i try keep it to a minimum.

I do have 5x14's waiting to be installed but i was saving them for a compound install aswell.

Have you looked into the 351VE or 431ve turbo? Might better fit with the fuel you have and your tuning style.

I think upgrading the TC in the trans will net you more performance gains than a turbo at this point in time.