Help me NOT screw it up . . . .

[oldestof11]

Looking at what BC posted, it seems to me we can effectively pull the pin down prematurely by the affect of the gov spring being tighter and having more pull...

[BC847]

Got a couple of hours of Dyno time reserved for Thursday of next week. Should be able to dial-in the IP timing, etc.

[BC847]

Drove it to the coast Friday night. Filled up before we left, drove 170 miles now with 60 of those at 75mph, about 60 more at 60mph, and the rest 35~45mph. Started with the fuel gauge needle just above the full mark, now it's right between the 1/2 and 3/4 mark.

Ehh . . .



Do I really need the KSB circuit?

I've got that dyno time coming up this Thursday, more specifically for dialing in the IP timing. The last time I did it like this, I did so with the KSB energized. According to the Bosch book, the hydraulic advance offered by the KSP is most pronounced at the lower engine rpms, and a much smaller advance (over KSB off), in the upper engine rpm range. That being said, why can't i just dial in the timing based solely on the IP's dynamic device exclusively?

Living in central NC, our winters don't get near as cold as those of the northern states. I don't know that I'd be miserable with a little stumbling and white smoke starting it up on a colder morning. I've got the components to remove the stock/OEM KSB circuit and return the pump to it's more basic dynamic timing design.

Thoughts?


Oh, I've got evidence of fuel draining from the AFC vent tube.

[PToombs]

Dave, leave the KSB. My truck was on the dyno and did 2 runs, I pulled the KSB wire for the last run, and lost 30 hp instantly. I was shocked to say the least that it helped that much.

[BC847]

Dave, leave the KSB. My truck was on the dyno and did 2 runs, I pulled the KSB wire for the last run, and lost 30 hp instantly. I was shocked to say the least that it helped that much.

My point is to remove the KSB and set the IP timing on the dyno for best performance.

Again, as I understand the function of the KSB, it's most pronounced advance of the timing is in the lower engine rpms. As the engine winds up, the advance provided by the KSB drops back to a much smaller figure. Ignore the numbers, but simply as an example, the KSB provides 8* additional advance @ 1500rpm. At 2000rpm and above, the KSB provides only 2* additional advance.

I'm at the beach and limited to those images available on photobucket. The following image is for the mechanical KSB. Note the pronounced advance at the lower rpms and it dropping back to a lower advance with rising rpm.



The hydraulic KSB as found on our mess presents with a more rounded curve where it's in effect (b).




Drag racing, dynoing, all that mess, we're typically well past 1000 or so rpms. In my case, that additional advance on the bottom only serves to increase the engine rattle as I build up boost at the line. Screw it, Just set the static IP timing those additional couple or three degrees.
I've got a couple of dyno hours so I'll be making multiple stabs with varied IP timing to see what's good for what. I'll most likely make 10, 15 or more stabs on the dyno working out the kinks.


In my mind, removing the KSB simplifies a couple of things elsewhere.





It's gonna hurt my feelings if, after all this mess, the heap makes less than before. Runs slow at the track.

[BC847]

It's gonna hurt my feelings if, after all this mess, the heap makes less than before.

Sigh . . ..

I'm missing some fuel. Once the turbos go to full song, I've got little to no smoke.

Still, mission accomplished at the dyno. Got the injection event timing dialed in . . . . . well, in the ballpark. Started the day with 370hp and ended with 423 (fuel only).

Never got the W/M to work . . . WTH?


Interestingly, the KSB effect presents weird on the dyno.

This is the timing effect the hydraulic KSB has on the timing vs pump speed:





This is how it pans out on the dyno (with my mess). Notice with the KSB on, power is down in the lower engine rpms, but up substantially at higher engine rpms.





Screw it, let's go back to the beach. I'll mess with it there . . . . . .

[RCCUMMINS89]

I am believing that like all other things with pumps that the timing curve seems to be diff. from pump to pump as well.

I know with my mess I un activate the ksb to increase power throughout the band (non dyno proven). I'm currently running (possibly just a touch much) one tooth skipped, the spacer, the ksb shims removed, and about 1/16" retarded from factory lines..... if I activate the ksb my engine rpm falls probably about 250 rpms.... even at factory timing. (0ddly motor becomes very smooth)


Don't you love how you have to start ALL OVER after you put on a new pump....

[oldestof11]

David, I bet the KSB is giving too much advance at lower RPMs and working backwards by burning the fuel too soon and not allowing enough heat in the exhaust for the turbos to spool.

[PToombs]

So get some sensors and a fancy computer thinger to turn on the KSB at 3k and you're all set!

RC, if you have an '89, the KSB is backwards, adding power to it retards timing.

[BC847]

I think I need to back off the static timing a little and continue energizing the KSB when racing.

That should remove some of the over-advance at the bottom-end, and still see the improvement at the top.



That missing fuel . . . . I confess I reinstalled that little nylon washer under the fuel-pin's diaphragm. My point in that was an effort to stop the fuel leaking past the needles O-ring due to over-extension with the crazy-deep fuel-pin.

I don't think that's the missing fuel.

[RCCUMMINS89]

So get some sensors and a fancy computer thinger to turn on the KSB at 3k and you're all set!

RC, if you have an '89, the KSB is backwards, adding power to it retards timing.

LOL, I have a 92...89 body

[BC847]

Found the missing fuel.


This Thursday night should tell the tale.

[AHineman]

Found the missing fuel.

[BC847]

Found the missing fuel.

The boost reference signal was not making it to the AFC (or W/M). Had a ball get loose in the Boost-Fooler thus, it's outlet was blocked.

I can't tell by the seat-of-the-pant gauge if it's pulling harder, but getting from 30ish to 70ish is pretty danged quick.

[AHineman]

Awesome.

That would definitely make a difference. Like having the valet switch on all the time.