Timing questions

[cummins12club]

Just a few timing questions first what is the degree of the stock timing on our engines? How much timing in degrees does turning the pump all the way to the intake side of the head give u and how much can u gain w a dynamic timing device? And finally how much timing should I run w a maxed ve 4k gov non IC delivery valves 5x18 injectors and an air dog 150?

[Sutter1stgen]

To the head had me at 14deg. With the ksb switched on I was at 21deg. And this is with a m&h spacer. Like I posted in your other thread, those bigger injectors like a lot of timing. I have yet to get a dyno tune session to see where MY truck likes it. Because every truck is different. Some people jump 2 teeth with there setup. I'm at +1 tooth with stock static timing now, with the spacer. When I throw my ksb on now it is too much timing. It actually loses power.

[cummins12club]

How do u control ksb?

[skilletky]

with an intercooler pump, you give the ksb solenoid 12 volts to advance the timing. with a non intercooled pump, i think that it works oppistie.

[cummins12club]

Why does it have a wire going to it from the factory what does that do?

[Sutter1stgen]

My truck was originally non I/c. Sonwhen we put everything back together with I/c stuff my ksb was on all the time. I didn't know this till later. Non I/c truck cut power to advance, where as I/c trucks cut power to retard/ remain static. This is how it was explained to me. So in both cases they yes! Need a wire for power. I would run 12v to the solenoid via a switch. Don't leave it on for long periods of time. The solenoid wasnt designed for it.

[skilletky]

the ksb advances the timing to aid in cold weather starting. it is wired to a temp switch that is located on the intake plate, which operates the grid heater also. the sensor and ksb power is supplied with power from the second wire coming from the fss. this is for a intercooled truck, not sure about non intercooled

[Mark Nixon]

the ksb advances the timing to aid in cold weather starting. it is wired to a temp switch that is located on the intake plate, which operates the grid heater also. the sensor and ksb power is supplied with power from the second wire coming from the fss. this is for a intercooled truck, not sure about non intercooled

The non-intercooled design has direct constant power.
The "solenoid" on a non-intercooled is a wax pellet in a chamber backed by a piston and heated by a small element.
When the wax is hard (cold) the timing is fully advanced, once it warms, the piston moves and the timing retards.
It's like laying on ice, or floating in water.

In both systems the ultimate goal is to retard the timing once the engine is warm.
The non-intercooled design is more gradual and less precise, while the intercooled design is more instantaneous once it reacts.
BOTH designs actually have constant power from the same source, it's just that the intercooled version uses a thermostatic control to turn the KSB on and off.

Mark.

[Tacoclaw]

The KSB on my non-IC'd truck runs through the intake air temp switch. I personally don't see a problem with wiring it key-on since it takes some time before it actually heats up and retards the engine. That span should give the engine time to start running right.

[Mark Nixon]

The KSB on my non-IC'd truck runs through the intake air temp switch. I personally don't see a problem with wiring it key-on since it takes some time before it actually heats up and retards the engine. That span should give the engine time to start running right.

Yeah, I went out and looked at the carhauler and it DOES route through an ATS set-up, my bad.
I've always tested the circuit cold and had voltage.
This could be why I have heard one or 2 of them vary the RPM ever so slightly on very cold days.

Mark.

[cummins12club]

So just wire the ksb straight to the battery and put it on a switch?

[Tacoclaw]

my bad.

Mark.

I've bested Mark Nixon on Dodge knowledge. I believe I will have a beer to celebrate.



If your dealing with an IC'd KSB then yes. Turn it on for cold starts, leave it off when cruising, turn it on again for more HP up top. I will say that I was not impressed at all with my truck when my KSB wire falls off and I'm driving it around. It's not worth the tradeoff of torque down low for the HP up top unless you're literally racing or trying to get a higher HP number on the dyno.

[cummins12club]

How much degree of timing will putting the ksb on a switch add?

[Sutter1stgen]

I don't know if it matters???? But with the m&h spacer installed, I was at 14 degrees with the pump to the head at idle. And with the ksb flipped on i was at 21 degrees at idle. This was checked with a light.

[Mark Nixon]

I don't know if it matters???? But with the m&h spacer installed, I was at 14 degrees with the pump to the head at idle. And with the ksb flipped on i was at 21 degrees at idle. This was checked with a light.

7 degrees is a significant amount, I think.
Not sure that it's that many degrees of a difference at road speed, though.

Mark.