Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

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Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:55 pm

Had to do a reseal on a pump that had already been tampered with. Now trying to get it to run good.

The truck is a 92 with Denny T 2 pin, 100 hp injectors?, HX35 mounted to stock exhaust housing, 366 spring.

When I first started it I hit what I thought was runaway but now am pretty sure it was due to throttle indexing, shut it down with a board anyway. 1/2 turn on the fuel screw in meant runaway, out made crank no start.

Now that the throttle is reindexed properly I can bottom out the fuel screw and never hit runaway. It does run poorly though, gobs of smoke, very slow spool, loss of boost. Was running 30ish now 22ish. I've backed the fuel screw out several turns from where it was originally and still too much smoke and not enough go. The star wheel is up 4 full turns and smoke screw is flush with the top of the housing. The wear marks on the pin show a full sweep of the ramp.

What say's the ORG? Keep pulling fuel from the fuel screw? Few more turn up on the star wheel? Throttle index still not right? Or other?

I'm not opposed to taking the pump top back off to make sure everything is as it should be, but I really don't see where I could have gone wrong. The only thing concerning to me is the screw bottoming out and no runaway, yes I've read some pumps can do that.

Any help is truely appreciated.
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby PToombs » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:57 pm

Sounds like the timing is off. What color is the smoke? Does it rattle a lot when it's running? IMO, it sounds retarded, maybe turn the pump towards the head a little and see if it gets better.
pete

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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:02 pm

I didn't take the pump off so I left the timing where it was. It's pretty advanced not quite to the head but close.

Smoke is black, very black and lots of it. Sounds great at idle and at speed.
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby dazedandconfused » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:14 pm

You sure the AFC is still working? You didn't crack that little line did you? I would mess with the indexing a little more too.
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby Tacoclaw » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:20 pm

Any chance the lift pump crapped out on you?
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:25 pm

Does the indexing affect fueling vs the idle stop? I've been looking over diagrams and I don't see where it matters aside from idle.

The tracks left on the pin tells me the afc is still working properly. If I did crack the line it wouldn't be moving.

The issue is that it runs worse after resealing. I put the new fuel screw next to the old and put it in roughly where it was before. Now it's super smokey, laggy and slow. I can keep pulling fuel but I think I'm missing something.
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:26 pm

Tacoclaw wrote:Any chance the lift pump crapped out on you?



I doubt it, it's pretty new. Idles too smooth and fuels way too hard.
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
142autox
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:01 pm

Have you confirmed you don't have a boost leak?
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:32 pm

I suppose I could have caused a boost leak while digging at the pump. I'll pressureize it tomorrow and have a looksee.

I guess the plan is to keep pulling fuel via the fuel screw until the smoke calms down a little then start fine tuning.

Can you over fuel to the point of lost boost rolling at wot? It's a pretty hefty cloud but lost about 10lbs boost.
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
142autox
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:43 pm

Yes, you can put out the fire to the point it never really comes back......
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby PToombs » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:35 pm

I didn't realize you didn't pull the pump. It's way overfueling for some reason if the smoke is black. IMO keep backing out the screw and if it doesn't make a difference then you may have to pull the top and double check inside. The smoke screw and starwheel are just fine tuning, they won't cause a big change like running logy, slow spool and gobs of smoke. The starwheel down will cause lots of smoke if you stomp on it from a stop, but it should clear when the turbo starts to spool.
pete

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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:42 pm

Thanks! But what am I checking for inside?
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
142autox
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby RCCUMMINS89 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:48 pm

142autox wrote:Was running 30ish now 22ish. I've backed the fuel screw out several turns from where it was originally and still too much smoke and not enough go. The star wheel is up 4 full turns and smoke screw is flush with the top of the housing. The wear marks on the pin show a full sweep of the ramp.



This tells me boost leak...or timing.... 22# of boost and blowing black, that's the issue that needs to be looked at.
89 RC on shortened 92 diesel frame - NV4500 w/dual disc/4.10s on 37s. - Self built pump, "hot screw", lots of timing, True high volume low pressure lift pump, 62fmw/68/.7gated, 77lpm SAC Inj., Studs/O-rings,- 423/1220 Mustang - 11/16/2013 http://www.TheHungryDiesel.com full line dealer, if you don't see it please ask.
RCCUMMINS89
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:54 pm

RCCUMMINS89 wrote:
142autox wrote:Was running 30ish now 22ish. I've backed the fuel screw out several turns from where it was originally and still too much smoke and not enough go. The star wheel is up 4 full turns and smoke screw is flush with the top of the housing. The wear marks on the pin show a full sweep of the ramp.



This tells me boost leak...or timing.... 22# of boost and blowing black, that's the issue that needs to be looked at.


I'm looking into a potential boost leak in the morning. I've heard of boost pressure going down while power comes up with timing advance.

Note: I've still made no timing adjustments.
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
142autox
fuel screw!!!!
 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:13 pm
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Re: Need help, pump tuning w/o a baseline.

Postby 142autox » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:45 am

Good call on boost leak fellas :thumright: found a massive intercooler leak.

Now to locate one.
93 W350 dually, A518. DDP stage 1 injectors, and typical pump adjustments.
142autox
fuel screw!!!!
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:13 pm
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