Question about Toyota drivers

[meby]

Are they idiots or is there more to the story than I've heard? How are you not able to stop your vehicle if the accelerator sticks? Can't they put it in neutral, turn off the ignition, hit the brakes or something?

[Richie O]

I can see there being crashes in tight quarters like heavy traffic or parking lots. These people driving a hundred miles an hour down the interstate calling the police on there cell phones saying they can not stop is a joke. Put it in park and let it explode. The latest guy stating his car was a runaway is looking false. Toyota states his car had been floored like 200 times and had several brake applications while the throttle was off. They also said his e brake had not been set like he said. They did say his front brakes were pretty screwed up. Who knows. We were not there. All I know is the car would stop, its just a question if the rods would be in the block or in the road dragging behind the car. I have had times where my throttle has stuck over the years for all different reasons. I always got it stopped.

[oldestof11]

Here is my take about those Prius's.

The are electronically controlled. In and out, up and down, left right, you get it. Everything goes through the computer. Now, the tranny wont go into D, R or N if it thinks its floored. There is a professor in S. IL that found something curious. If the sensor for the throttle position thingy or the sensor on the pedal get SHORTED very briefly (he has also said they are not made to prevent something like this), the computer does a very brief reflash and open to a WOT state while throwing no codes. Now that is where he left it and here is where I start. Toyota has touted that the car gets GREAT mpg's from a number of things. 1) The engine has a small (read, tiny) displacement. 2) The electric motor can be used to slow the car down in a NON panic state to recharge the batteries. 3) The gas engine and electric motor can be used simultaneously to accelerate the car (read: tiny engine cannot propel it fast enough). Now if the computer theoretically reflashes to a WOT, the motor and engine are turning. The engine can be slowed down with the brakes by itself. HOWEVER! The electric motor in combo with the engine, makes a LOT of torque.... Enough to push through the tiny brakes barely adequate to slow the damn thing down.

[PToombs]

I read in the paper that if you have the brake and gas on at the same time it derates the engine. Like, no full throttle possible.

[ahale2772]

i heard from a friend that a guy in Michigan was charged for the vehicular manslaughter of 3 people like 7 years ago (<correct me if im wrong) because of his prius had acted this way and has been in jail ever since... hes gona be mad this drive by wire thing is bound to happen if they cant make a fail safe for every possible siuation then they deserve every penny lost in a lawsuit, im no old fassioned bum im 20 and in engineering school ive got an ipod that can do most everything faster than my fathers pc, but in my first week at school i was taught that if engineers cant make there technologys safe then they have no right to impiment that technology, expecially in a vehicle that is under the control of a yuppy treehugger with very little common sence..... for me ill take my funny cable shut down and be just fine with that

[1STGENFARMBOY]

I still think that everybody driving should have to pass a (DRIVING TEST) where you have to controle your car in
a skid-slide situation where you have to use a little skill, like kill the engine while going around a corner you know
no power steering or brakes, and then get-er shut down, not just go strait down the dry sunny streat, old or
young if you cant pass (NO DRIVING). some of these people driving dont have a clue how to really drive.

[meby]

I read in the paper that if you have the brake and gas on at the same time it derates the engine. Like, no full throttle possible.

My VW automatically goes to idle if I hit the brakes while on the throttle. So no power braking. I don't know either way on the Prius, but it wouldn't surprise me if they had something similar.

[921stgen]

A few posts on how to stop them. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f

[Tacoclaw]

The third one down's pretty good and informative, considering you're not at work, or around your wife, or grandparents, or anyone with a pacemaker.

[CAJUN 93]

the etc (electronic throttle control) is activated strictly by the ecm. the abs brakes and transmission are also computer controlled. it's pretty easy to realize if one system isnt responding to driver inputs that the others may not be too. all the "just throw it in neutral" or "dumbass should have turned of the key" are strictly asine comments from folks who don't understand just how electronically controlled a late model auto truly is. also the youtube videos showing how simple it is to stop a car are irrelevent as they are all filmed in a non affected automobile. if the folks at the ntsb and toyota are so confident that the guy in california is faking this, let them put thier wife and kids in that particular vehicle for 6 months. bet they wont.

daryl

[Begle1]

I have yet to see any evidence that the "affected" vehicles are preventing shifts into neutral or turning the ignition off.

Just because an electro/ digital system can be designed to be that dangerous, doesn't mean that these ones are, and doesn't mean that they all are.

[Douglas]

the etc (electronic throttle control) is activated strictly by the ecm. the abs brakes and transmission are also computer controlled. it's pretty easy to realize if one system isnt responding to driver inputs that the others may not be too. all the "just throw it in neutral" or "dumbass should have turned of the key" are strictly asine comments from folks who don't understand just how electronically controlled a late model auto truly is. also the youtube videos showing how simple it is to stop a car are irrelevent as they are all filmed in a non affected automobile. if the folks at the ntsb and toyota are so confident that the guy in california is faking this, let them put thier wife and kids in that particular vehicle for 6 months. bet they wont.

daryl

The Prius at least has no computer-independant difference between reverse, neutral, drive and low. They are just positions on a switch...only park is mechanically connected to something. As to the brake throttle over-ride, do any of youse have any sources for the claim Toyota has one? I've been discussing exactly that with a few folks and I am fairly convinced that they did not implement one...it is just fewer lines of code to vet...and that is by definition cheaper. Certainly the CHiP driving the Lexus found none.
cheers,
Douglas

[CAJUN 93]

I have yet to see any evidence that the "affected" vehicles are preventing shifts into neutral or turning the ignition off.

Just because an electro/ digital system can be designed to be that dangerous, doesn't mean that these ones are, and doesn't mean that they all are.

beagle, just how much evidence have you seen? you must be on a first name basis with mr toyota or someone at the ntsb if you've seen anything other than the media reports. the manufacturer has been pretty quite as to the results of thier testing.

douglas, i don't know of the prius having a brake-throttle override factory programmed. the other affected models don't either as best i can tell. i do know that part of the current recall to install the "washer" in the accelerator assm involves a reflash. wanna bet an override is being installed. once again, toyotas not being very forthcoming with the info.

daryl

[meby]

I'm not trying to start a fight here, I just thought that common sense would say there has to be someway to stop the vehicle or prevent it from hitting 90+ mph. Wanted to see if someone was more informed than myself about why that might not be possible.

[Douglas]

I'm not trying to start a fight here, I just thought that common sense would say there has to be someway to stop the vehicle or prevent it from hitting 90+ mph. Wanted to see if someone was more informed than myself about why that might not be possible.

It doesn't take too much to overload the brakes; if the driver mistakenly believes he can pull in the reigns and hold it at a safe speed he'll regret it shortly. If the motor goes full throttle the best sol'n is panic-level pressure on the brakes to get to a stop in one brake event. IIRC the rotors were still orange on that CHiP's loaner Lexus by the time witnesses who'd be willing to notice such things arrived.

daryl, it would not suprise me in the least that Toyota was updating the code with an throttle/brake over ride feature. That they haven't spoken of it leaves me with *ZERO* trust in anything they claim.

They also happened to have a 'fix' for the pedals right after the problem was 'discovered'. That leaves me with a quite ligitamate conclusion that they knew about this about 6 months ago; they can't move much faster than that even with a substantial fire under their backside.
cheers,
Douglas