How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

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How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby 4x4 American » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:47 am

I want to rotate the cone and turn the starwheel and make it so that it only smokes when I mash it and it doesn't sacrifice mileage. How much should I rotate the cone and the starwheel to achieve this? Also, my tranny is slipping a little bit would it be a bad idea to mess with the pump? I'm not touching the main full power fuel screw. Also, I don't have a pyro or a trans temp gauge would it be ok to do the cone and starwheel and smoke screw without these? I usually drive like grandpa to get good mileage anyways so I don't think that my egts will get too outta hand and when I mash it I only mash it for a little bit like just up to 50-60. Any advice would be great!

(1989 W250 Cummins recon engine with 20k since the reman, 190k on truck. 727 Torqueflite 3spd auto w/o od)
1989 w250 Cummins Recon Engine, rebuilt 727 torqueflite, BD diesel torque converter, 4" diamond eye turbo back straight pipe side exit, fuel pin turned, starwheel in, smoke screw in, full power fuel screw tweaked a little bit. Black Betty is held together by rust and american pride!
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby dazedandconfused » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:12 pm

If your trans is already sliping I would leave it alone. Last thing a sliping trans needs is more power thrown at it.
Big Andy
1983 Dodge D150 that has been repowered with a 93 Cummins/518 running gear AKA The Ugly Duck! I would much rather build them then buy them.
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby Richie O » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:49 pm

I know your excited and all that to have a diesel but you will not get much help with your question from 98% of the forum readers. Most guys here have trucks that smoke, but was not there goal. Make some power and smoke will come with it. Most of the diesel world is getting worried about EPA and there rules. Every time we blow smoke its just asking for more laws restricting our trucks.
1989 W250 727, 3.07 L/S, S300, P/S Intercooler, Stans exaust, Pump adjustments, 127k miles,297 hp
1993 W250 extended cab, rag, 4.10 l/s, 6x16's, HTT 62/71/14 piston l/p, Isspro EV series tach, fuel pressure, boost, oil pres, water temp, volt, pryo, 132k/ 301 hp
1992 W250 with NV4500, 3.54's, 16cm 60mm GDS H1C, ground stock cone, Isspro tach, pryo, boost, fuel pressure, slow, rusty, dented,180k
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby 4x4 American » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:13 pm

Richie O wrote:I know your excited and all that to have a diesel but you will not get much help with your question from 98% of the forum readers. Most guys here have trucks that smoke, but was not there goal. Make some power and smoke will come with it. Most of the diesel world is getting worried about EPA and there rules. Every time we blow smoke its just asking for more laws restricting our trucks.


I don't have the money right now to spend on the things I need to make power. I just want to be able to blow a little bit of smoke at the prius/honda behind me is all. I love diesels I'm going to school right now studying diesel technology I want to be a diesel technician when I'm out. I don't want to be blowin smoke everywhere I go all I want is to be able to puff out a little bit of smoke here and there. The truck I have is kinda rotted out anyways so it's not worth putting too much money into.
1989 w250 Cummins Recon Engine, rebuilt 727 torqueflite, BD diesel torque converter, 4" diamond eye turbo back straight pipe side exit, fuel pin turned, starwheel in, smoke screw in, full power fuel screw tweaked a little bit. Black Betty is held together by rust and american pride!
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby burnt_servo » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:12 pm

smoke = unburnt fuel .
unburnt fuel = poor economy

or in other words smoke equals wasted money , and like wht richie was saying a bad image for diesel owners .
'93 w250 .... stock ...
curently removing the dead moose parts ....
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby Richie O » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:26 pm

I bet my trucks smoke as bad as anyones, but I did not tune them to smoke, I tuned them to go and smoke came with it. I very rarely smoke ball people I don't know. Maybe once and a while a tailgater gets fogged, but I try to be as good as I can.
1989 W250 727, 3.07 L/S, S300, P/S Intercooler, Stans exaust, Pump adjustments, 127k miles,297 hp
1993 W250 extended cab, rag, 4.10 l/s, 6x16's, HTT 62/71/14 piston l/p, Isspro EV series tach, fuel pressure, boost, oil pres, water temp, volt, pryo, 132k/ 301 hp
1992 W250 with NV4500, 3.54's, 16cm 60mm GDS H1C, ground stock cone, Isspro tach, pryo, boost, fuel pressure, slow, rusty, dented,180k
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby SNOOT » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:41 am

@ wide open throttle......

Image
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby dunes450r » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:14 am

you have a truck with a tranny that is going out, and you want good fuel economy, neither of these things go with smoke, granted you can have smoke and still get good mileage, but the last thing a weak tranny needs is more power being pushed through it
1990 W250 getrag, 3.07's, 60k on full rebuild, DAP 5x14's, 12cm WG, 366 spring, 2nd gen IC not hooked up yet
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby chrislib » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:54 pm

starwheel all the way at the bottom and deep part of the pin facing forward`ll get ya all the smoke it`ll make if thats what ya want. that said, I just swapped injectors to lessen the amount smoke, the side benefit is the truck makes more power and is a TON more fun to drive. I don`t know what part of the country your from but here on Long Island it seems the nanny stater environuts outnumber the sane folk.
It`s not about how hard ya hit...it`s about how hard ya can GET hit and keep movin forward.

93 W250 CC 4x4, Auto,7x010`s, D-Zilla/16cm, 5in exh, BHAF/Smoky...don`t call it ratty, that`s patina son!
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby 4x4 American » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:02 pm

chrislib wrote:starwheel all the way at the bottom and deep part of the pin facing forward`ll get ya all the smoke it`ll make if thats what ya want. that said, I just swapped injectors to lessen the amount smoke, the side benefit is the truck makes more power and is a TON more fun to drive. I don`t know what part of the country your from but here on Long Island it seems the nanny stater environuts outnumber the sane folk.


I turned the deep side of the fuel cone forward and I twisted that starwheel down 3 turns and it didnt do anything. I'm thinking it may be because that tranny wont put a full load on the engine. And everytime I whAt? with the pump and then went on a drive to test it out it was really hard to start.
1989 w250 Cummins Recon Engine, rebuilt 727 torqueflite, BD diesel torque converter, 4" diamond eye turbo back straight pipe side exit, fuel pin turned, starwheel in, smoke screw in, full power fuel screw tweaked a little bit. Black Betty is held together by rust and american pride!
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby Remps » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:35 pm

Whats wrong with the tranny? Slipping bad when it upshifts or something? The stock autos just feel sloppy due to the very loose converter. Set the valves if you haven't, and back out the high idle screw flush. Make sure the throttle opens all the way. The tranny will put more power to the ground with more rpms.
'90 D250 R/C,727,IC,6x.009's,1/8" bump,fuel psi,straight pipe w/5" stack.
'90 W250 R/C,47rh,K@N,HX35,1/8" bump,2nd gen IC,boost,egt,trans temp.3.07's.
'96 2500 S/C L/B,2wd,NV5600,3.54 L/S,cai,egt,pacbrake,mbrp exhaust,fuel plate.
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby 4x4 American » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:21 am

Remps wrote:Whats wrong with the tranny? Slipping bad when it upshifts or something? The stock autos just feel sloppy due to the very loose converter. Set the valves if you haven't, and back out the high idle screw flush. Make sure the throttle opens all the way. The tranny will put more power to the ground with more rpms.


Is that so that these 727 trannys just feel sloppy even if they're good? I brought it to the shop i got it from and i said i think that the tranny is slipping and he said it's in perfect condition and i said i can hear/feel the power that isn't gettin to the ground so I figured that the tranny was just slipping. He said that these old trucks just drive this way. He turned a 1990 w350 into a tow rig and this thing is nasty. got a 5.9 turned up with a few odds and ends done to her, built a518 he said over the phone he welcomes me to drive her and feel the way she drives he said she'll feel the same way mine does. When I'm driving my girl, i'll give her fuel and the engine will whine and not feel as torquey and takeoff as she should. I drove my buddys 1991.5 with the 47rh in it (I believe-4 spd w/ OD) he's got 110k miles on her and he just got her flushed, she is insanely torquey going up steep grades and down the road. Mine dont feel that way and my engine is a cummins recon engine that comes turned up a bit. occasionally my tranny will grab and you can feel the full torque of the engine for a second and it feels the way it should for a second. Think it'd help to have the tranny flushed, then change the filters, the valvebody, and tighten up the bands? I hate not having overdrive i get terrible fuel economy on the highway and I have to drive 200 miles to college fairly frequently i'd like to get an overdrive added, is that possible?

How do I set the valves and back out the high idle screw flush? Is there a diy or any link you know of on how to do this? I'm going to research it after I'm done writing this but any advice/ help would be great. We're doing transmissions this coming semester in college so maybe i'll bring her in and rebuild her or something idk.

Thanks alot, sorry for my excessive amounts of information and questions, just trying to learn as much as I can.
-Doug
1989 w250 Cummins Recon Engine, rebuilt 727 torqueflite, BD diesel torque converter, 4" diamond eye turbo back straight pipe side exit, fuel pin turned, starwheel in, smoke screw in, full power fuel screw tweaked a little bit. Black Betty is held together by rust and american pride!
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby dunes450r » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:33 am

the only real way to get more power to the ground it to get a tighter torque converter, or switch to a later model trans with a lock up TC. the 518 is just a 727, with an added O/D, it won't put any more power to the ground then a 727. your friends 47rh is a lock up and therefore puts most of the power it makes to the wheels, and doesn't just lose power heating up ATF.
1990 W250 getrag, 3.07's, 60k on full rebuild, DAP 5x14's, 12cm WG, 366 spring, 2nd gen IC not hooked up yet
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby 4x4 American » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:05 pm

dunes450r wrote:the only real way to get more power to the ground it to get a tighter torque converter, or switch to a later model trans with a lock up TC. the 518 is just a 727, with an added O/D, it won't put any more power to the ground then a 727. your friends 47rh is a lock up and therefore puts most of the power it makes to the wheels, and doesn't just lose power heating up ATF.


I thought that the 727 does have a lock up TC? Thats wat it says in the manual at least..
1989 w250 Cummins Recon Engine, rebuilt 727 torqueflite, BD diesel torque converter, 4" diamond eye turbo back straight pipe side exit, fuel pin turned, starwheel in, smoke screw in, full power fuel screw tweaked a little bit. Black Betty is held together by rust and american pride!
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Re: How to tune ve pump to make smoke w/o bad mpgs

Postby dazedandconfused » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:31 pm

No the 727 and 518 are both non-lockup trans.
Big Andy
1983 Dodge D150 that has been repowered with a 93 Cummins/518 running gear AKA The Ugly Duck! I would much rather build them then buy them.
Click this link to learn how to post pictures. http://1stgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=13518
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